Denver Comic Con
June 30 - July 2, 2017
Sometimes I’m afraid that we’ve created villains that are too powerful. I find myself struggling to figure out how some of them — Geist especially — can be defeated.
Intangible beings are countered by psychic powers.
I was just thinking that. Unless he can be affected by “intangible” energy (e.g. electricity/fire), Lady Liberty is the best bet to defeat Geist as it stands.
If she’s the one to counter him, she’ll have to get a grip on herself before she can do so properly.
hey lightning guns worked for atomic robo so you might be right
Dr. Whatshername has lightning gloves. She can do anything.
yes just ask charles fort
Or he dies if he is still in the body of the posessed when it dies.
What happens is the possessed body is knocked out for example? (gas, knock to the head etc.) I would think Geist bonds with the body on some level to do what he does. That can’t be one-sided.
I second the psychic solution for Geist. As far as we know, his mind might be more real than whatever physical presence Geist has, so maybe killing him would be as easy as breaking his mind.
About the others:
Panzer doesn’t seem mobile enough to keep up with a flying opponent, and a good anti-armor bomb would probably do the trick. Also, he seems pretty conductive to me.
Max Schnell seems faster than Jack Be Nimble, but Jack’s exoskeleton seems to give him edge in direct combat. Also Lady Liberty’s telekinetic, so maybe she could either stop him or slow him down (maybe at least enough for Jack to catch up with him? Or for anyone else to get a target?). Also lightning is faster than him, I bet.
The Witch is hard one. We seen her fly, and use some sort of death beam (?) – do her powers even work on machines? With two heavy machineguns and being a robot (mostly) Golem seems like a good match against her.
Of course, assuming Crossbones doesn’t off her first.
The Aryan seems simple, I think Captain Victory could best him in even fight. Or Loewe, since he seems like his personal nemesis.
That or his weakness might be the most pragmatic of all – bullets.
Corssbones – I’d assume his destiny is to be killed with Balmung by Captain Victory (who maybe as superhuman wouldn’t share “Jaeger’s” fate?), as it seems most dramatically appropriate – Captain America/Red Skull parallels and all, and it’d make Baron talking about “throwing himself on the sword” a while back some neat foreshadowing. And to be frank, straight up physical combat seems to be the closest to his ‘weakness’.
On a more meta level, I’d possibly like to see Ubermenschen being picked off one by one, isolated from others thanks to a plan, and then killed using teamwork.
Early on, Geist was shown to be able to blow the brains out of a body he was still in, so I don’t think that will work. Also, I’m all for making things difficult for both sides, so I would propose that, though he is currently picking off regular soldiers, his day could culminate in the temporary possession of one of the higher team members…
Recall that one of the benefits the Golem would be perceived to have would be that it lacked a usable mind. This would be the case were it not for Max’s little secret… This could even leave room for a ‘big reveal’, though the only way to get Geist out might be Lady Liberty and she might do so discreetly, so that his secret isn’t revealed. She can, after all, read minds, so she likely already knows that the tin man already has a brain and a heart, but would also know that he wants himself to remain secret. If the secret is maintained, it could put max in an extremely guilty position: if he were taken over and used by Geist, via the Golem (or Der Golem, as it would temporarily be), to cause major harm, but didn’t reveal himself, he could still potentially pass it off as a fluke and claim he ‘fixed it’ at a later time. He would also, however, be severely psychologically damaged and likely extremely shell shocked from it (if he isn’t already). He might border on severe depression or show signs of increasing instability and severe stress disorders through time. This could set the stage for any number of the others to save him mentally. Perhaps, if taken over, he could feel what its like to be possessed by Geist, but couldn’t be killed because he is safe inside the armor and without weapons that can penetrate it. There could be some nuance to the possession that he could learn that could be used at a later date?
Don’t get me wrong, Max is one of my favorite characters. But he’s still a kind young kid from a healthy family that instilled in him values that are not necessarily compatible with war. Things could get to him. I do wonder what will happen if they are trapped behind enemy lines and forced to rely on only each other. ‘Golem can take watch’ ‘but… but I need to sl… I mean, to charge my capacitors in temporary shutdown mode. yeah…’
If there’s one major liability that The Specialists have, I would say its that at least half of them are entirely mentally unprepared for, and perhaps even unable to cope with, war. They are, however, able to trust one another and could work together, so could team up to work through problems and defeat any given member of Team Crossbones if they had to.
If there’s one major benefit/liability Team Crossbones has its that at least half of them are violent, malicious, dishonest, or sociopathic at best, many of whom were probably chosen to receive powers for those very reasons. They aren’t just prepared and used to for the horrors of war, they ARE the horrors of war. They, however, can’t trust each other, can’t trust their leader, and may have trouble pulling together to save each other.
A neat thing might be to find ways for unlikely candidates to defeat them. Though Panzer on Golem action would be neat, unlikely matchups are interesting, rather than each merely fighting their alter ego.
For example, I agree, Panzer seems conductive, but we don’t know more about his physiology. Maybe he is well-grounded and has too little resistance to heat much regardless of current; but if he is just full solid metal (no blood to boil) perhaps the Bomber’s extreme heat from his jetpack may be what is needed to melt his stone cold heart.
Perhaps only Jack is fast enough to catch The Witch by surprise before she can go incorporeal.
Maybe the Golem could duke it out with The Aryan, or could be used to combat the hordes of undead (since Max likely has issued with killing – a ten-commandments thing – but those are already dead). Maybe Baron Crossbones is already back from the dead, and knowing this would allow Max to fight him as well…
Maybe Lady Liberty takes on Panzer – he may still have a mind, and it may not be strong…
Perhaps it could be Question Mark that inevitably defeats Geist. We do have evidence that there’s something peculiar about his mind, though we don’t know what.
Perhaps a well-timed foot stuck out by Captain Victory could trip up Max Schnell. Or maybe he could clothesline him. At Schnell’s speeds, he has significant kinetic energy. It would be a shame if this were all to be dissipated instantaneously in an untimely meeting with a brick wall… Or maybe he could be taken by surprise and caught. He is fast, but could he squirm out of the iron grip of someone who can’t be hurt by conventional means, like The Golem or Captain Victory? Once he can’t move fast, is he quite squishy? And would Max have the wherewithal to close The Golem’s hand on this matter, if Schnell were thusly caught?
Or could pull a George RR Martin and have both sides take heavy losses. Baron and Metzger may have to make some new members (though The Aryan needs to survive for Loewe’s sake). Meanwhile, a severely disabled Team Specialists could find some unexpected new recruits among the less or perhaps more successful of Metzger’s experiments. That blob-slug guy, for example… remember, they always come in twin pairs, with the second one being more successful. What if the one they shot was the less successful or the pair? If I recall he was speaking polish, was it?… perhaps someone among the normal soldiers understands polish (In the northern Midwest, we have families that still speak polish at home even though they’ve lived here for generations. A former neighbor of mine knows polish for this reason.)? Perhaps that was why whatshisname shot the guy so unemotionally and without running in fear – he understood what the slug-blob-man was saying, so knew that it was not a threat but a request for death? If they met up with the more successful twin (A full-on amoeboid person) or the less successful one, (who perhaps is partially man-shaped and merely has a certain malleability of body), whatshisname could translate.
I wonder about how vulnerable Max really is inside the Golem. The Golem has specifically stated it’s there to help Max fight. Currently we know that it can’t operate independently. Personally I believe that it WON’T operated independently. That might change if Geist possesses Max.
I hope he is protected by a Faraday Cage, might even keep Geist out.
Strictly speaking, it can’t fight, yet. It can certainly operate itself – what with getting paint and doing up a star of David on it’s chest, and all. Every minute Max spends plugged into the Golem is a percentage more capable the Golem becomes.
It isn’t there yet, but I hope, two or three chapters down the line, Geist does try to take Max…and the Golem kicks the ghost out by interacting through the interface in reverse.
Well, Geist has been fighting officially atheistic materialists on the Eastern Front, right?
…So what happens when he ‘ports into somebody with a genuine religious faith and artifact? Or just meets a chaplain? You can always blame it on a subconscious personality quirk: it’s a time-honored metahuman tradition.
As for Panzer… drop him in a pit. Drop several tanks into pit. Dump concrete over tanks. He can’t fight if he can’t move.
I figured he didn’t have to be defeated directly. We don’t know what it is that’s binding him to this plane of existence rather than moving on to judgement. Perhaps some magic of the Baron’s. Break that connection and he is defeated. Additionally it gives a great scene where the Devil or demons comes to collect him.
From another angle, do we even know he’s dead? Is he still very much alive be incorporeal for some reason. Maybe there’s some flaw in that that can be exploited.
Maybe this is astral projection. He could still have a physical body laying around somewhere that could be killed.
We really know almost nothing about him at this point.
I seem to remember a scene where he met his “other half”, but cannot seem to find it in the archive. I think his “other half” had white and blue speech balloons? My money’s on astral projection.
Hmm. You may be thinking of another comic. I can’t think of a scene like you’ve described.
Meanwhile, Kate could be frying those zombies, couldn’t she?
She could indeed be doing that. We’ll see Kate again soon, I promise.
Find his frequency then use the opposite polar field to keep him away or disrupt his matrix.
Maybe they should try tin-foil hats.
in most supernatural stories ghost are vunerable to salt or iron so go with cold iron that should help if that doesn’t work who you gonna call
who you gonna call
I would think Geist might have a problem with the ? (Questionmark).
The way he interacted with Agnes implies he is immune to her telepathy (and knows she has it). So he might just be problem for geist too.
Try lead bullets blessed by a Jewish Rabbi — effective against all nazis!
Ark(s) of the Covenant, Holy Grails and adventuresome Archeologists have been found to reduce their numbers and morale as well…
There’s a lot of really great discussion today, and some of you have come disturbingly close to what we have in mind!
Well the Gollum is wearing a holy symbol.
Would also be amusing to see the guy in the trench coat show up to hurl salt on him and send him off to the never-never for awhile.
the villain should , almost, always be more powerful then the hero. expect for the occasional well deserved curb stomp
The sad thing is that these guys are nowhere near as overpowered as half the cast of Worm. Sure, they are dangerous and willing to kill people, but none of them have the sheer firepower or versatility to stand against a proper army and win. Except maybe the Baron, in which case most of his potential is being wasted.
Hmm, not necessarily defeat, but quarantine. Have him try to leave the mind of someone with multiple personalities.
Agreed, Lady Liberty would be the one to counter Geist, if she can pull herself together. But here’s a twist: with the early disappointments and failed goals referenced in her bio, all the compounded negative side effects of the Athena experiments, and the unceasing tumult of all the conscious and subconscious minds she hears without being able to silence, I imagine that there’s a LOT of resentment, anger and potentially outright rage and hatred seething just below the surface in her mind. Seeing the slaughter of the battlefield firsthand for the first time could be just the thing to bring it all to a head [this is supported by her mental overload on pg.193], and if she can focus that eruption of negative energy and emotion at Geist, it would be like setting off a nuclear bomb in his psyche. If not outright killing him, this would almost certainly leave his mind in a completely shattered condition, making him little more than a vegetable and of no more threat (or usefulness, for the enemy). The downside is, if Lady Liberty can’t focus that energy tightly enough, she could fry every mind in the area, and, depending on the magnitude of the energy released, potentially start a “ripple effect” of psychic energy that could debilitate large areas of people. Because the human mind, and in this case psychic energy, is such an unknown factor, the potentials are unknown but frighteningly high, much like the early experiments with and first detonation of the atomic bomb. Essentially, you have a quantity here that could end the enemy threat or end the world.
Panzerlooks to be made of metal….that probably won’t end well for him if he’s pumped full of high voltage (highly doubt his brain is metallic 😉 ).
To be a tad flippant, they should unleash the Ghostbusters on him (As a matter of fact, I DID just purchase the 30th Anniversary Blu-Ray. Why do you ask? 😉 )
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